Questions & Answers on the Agreement Won by LA City Workers

0 responses to “Questions & Answers on the Agreement Won by LA City Workers”

1. This deal is a piece of crap. We would have been much better off taking the furloughs. We would have taken a 10% cut with the furloughs, but the raises we would have gotten would have softened the blow. We got some terrible advice from our union.
   As a traffic officer I feel especially betrayed. Now we know why the coalition of 21000 other workers wanted so badly for the paltry 600 or 700 traffic officers to join in. It was about the money! Traffic officers put money into the general fund. The city was never going to look at cutting a revenue stream. The coalition knew sure as shit that if they got the revenue producing group of traffic officers to join in with them, they couldn’t lose. Its just too bad that us traffic officers got sold out for the benefit of everyone else. We should have stayed on our own and never joined this coalition.

   Now, we’ve lost overtime pay, most of our holiday pay, among other things.
   Anyone who believes that this is temporary is a damn fool.! There’s no way in hell that the city will give us back overtime pay once we give it up.

2. As an LA Security Officer at LAX Myself and 460 other officers urge all Seiu 721 members to VOTE NO!! We can not allow this deal to go through and SHAME !!
   On 721 for even allowing it to be considered. I have lost alot of faith i once had in this union and its leadership.

   Once we give away, sick leave, OT, Holidays, Uniform and Boot allownce WE WILL NEVER GET IT BACK.

   PLEASE ALL CITY EMPLOYEES VOTE NO AND LET SEIU 721 LEADERSHIP THAT YOU ARE FURIOUS!!!!

3. IF THIS DEAL PASSES I URGE ALL MEMBERS TO DONATE YOUR DUES TO CHARITY!!!

   VOTE NO.

4. Can someone please check my math. . .Let’s see if I got this right:

   Remaining Pay Periods (hours) = 19 x 80 hrs = 1520 hrs.
   EAA furloughs left (hours) = 19 days x 8 hrs. = 152 hrs.

   152/1520 = 10% loss in salary. HOWEVER, take into account the fact that EAA got a 3% raise BEFORE the furloughs which would mean they really only lost 7%

   NOW on to coalition concessions:

   79 hr pay periods = 19 hrs lost (from remaining 19 pay periods)
   4 hrs. loss from each of the 10 remaining holidays = 40 hrs. total
   40 + 19 = 59 hrs. total loss

   from potentially 1520 hrs. (19 pay periods) we take 59 hrs.: 59/1520 = 3% net loss

   add an add’l 1% contribution to LACERS (for 15 YRS.), loss COLA for at least 3 years, including last year’s, potentially 5% (conservative) or more total, and other concessions (boot & uniform allowance) at 1% and we would have still ended up giving up 10% OVERALL!

   All this so that the ERIP would pass which would benefit EAA employees as well! I really don’t get how this is good for us and how it could save layoffs instead of just doing a straight up furlough!

   How about this deal: furlough everyone, forgo raises for the next 3 years, do ERIP and add 1% contribution for ERIP INCLUDING EAA members (they’re going to benefit from it anyway), stay with the 1% contribution from retirees AND GUARANTEE NO LAYOFFS! Sure, the city would get more at 11% but there’s no mess.

   Think about it people, a furlough day could potentially lower your tax bracket, give you an extra day to spend with family and you’re guaranteed not to get laid off! Ask anyone on furlough and they’ll tell you that it’s really not that bad considering you get to spend it with family. Seriously, how much more money do you really need when you’re already earning so much more than if you were in a private institution?

   Do your own math…

5. Is this just an attempt by the union to keep dues paying member so they don’t have to give up anything?

6. I feel the same as a most of you about this deal. We got fucked by the mayor. There’s no way to spin this into a moment of triumph. We had an agreement, and then the city betrayed us.

   That being said, this deal is the lesser of two evils. 26 furlough days are still much worse than 59 furlough hours. No matter how you do the math, 26 furlough days equals one month, one week, and one day of lost wages. 59 furlough hours equals 7 days and 3 hours of lost wages. There is no comparison.

   This loss would only take place till June 30, 2010. The original ERIP agreement would kick in on July 1, 2010, along with the first scheduled raise in July 2111.

   Now it would be very easy for us to throw our hands in the air and say, “let’s just take the furloughs and layoffs!” But that’s not what being a union member is all about.

   It’s easy to be part of a union when big contracts are being signed, money is being made, and everyone is getting their share of the pie. But the true test of being in a union is when a crisis like this threatens our jobs.

   So the question you have to ask yourselves is, “are you only a union member when times are good?” If your answer is “yes” then we’re all in trouble.

   A union is strong when the members watch each other’s backs, and make sure EVERYONE is protected. There is no “me” in UNION.

   If we reject this deal and allow our most vulnerable members to be laid-off, then our union will become divided. When our members face the next round of layoffs, the members with the least seniority will remember the way the way nobody protected the folks from the previous layoffs. There will be no trust in the union. That is how management breaks a union.

   I’m asking you, my brothers and sisters to stand with me in SOLIDARITY, and protect every member in this union like they were your own flesh and blood. The power we build from that will last for generations to come, and show our employer that we will not be broken. We will show the city that the UNION is strong!

   And if you think the union didn’t do a good job, then just look around you. Look at the state workers, LA Unified School District, Orange County, the United Auto Workers. I challenge anyone to find a union that has protected it’s members better during the worst financial crisis in our generation. Yes, we are taking some losses, but they are temporary and could be much worse!

   In Solidarity,

   Art Sweatman
   Union Steward, SEIU 721

7. Wow it’s amazing how stupid people are sometimes.
   The city realized how easy it was to have us vote yes last time that it wants more why take just a litle bit away from us when it can take what ever they want. We have a sorry a$$ union
   & a ton of ignorant people that are going to vote yes to getting screwed.!!!

8. OK, I have been a Union Steward for 12 years and have seen hard times,(Riorden)
   and good times ( HAHN) but come on we took a 9 percent raise when the city claimed they were on hard times, while the council and dwp got 22 percent, This was our contract to repay us for our concessions. And we got screwed, By the City, The Economy, And Who Elce? This Deal Is Pure Crap, Do The Math and Study it.
   The Bargening Team says they didnt it offer it….. So who Is Responcible. We Need to find out and remove that person or persons. Our Mayor That this Union Backed has brought this city to ruin by trying to hire 1000 police. Come on this city is policed out.
   LAPDLAXPD>GENERAL SERVICES PD all at 65-70000 a year, how many are sitting on there ass doin nothin, alot at LAX I Can tell you.

   This Deal Is Bad For the Front Line Workers who have worked hard for this city
   if some have to go so be it, If Police are Laid off So Be it .

   Its Time for Fairness to come to the Majority Of City Workers.

   VOTE NO

9. Recently, An email was circulated by our union president about the contract changes that will be coming up for a vote. Yes 1000 employees will get laid off, Yes aprox 2400 employees will retire early and with a load of cash, Yes the remaining 40,000 employees will be left holding the bag of crap left to us by our union.
   4 hour holiday pay, No Overtime, No Boot/Uniform bonus, No sick leave, Pay more into retirement, Get less when you retire.

   Sound Like A Deal to you? Want me to play the violins for 1000 people getting layed off? or cheer for the 2400 leaving with a load of cash that you and I will not get when we retire?

   NO!! I will Stand up for the 40,000 employees Abandoned By this Union!! Forgotten
   By this Union, Vote No, and Hold 721 accountable for this Betrayal. I for one will
   NEVER FORGET.

10. 59 hours is small concession for a short amount of time–just this fiscal year.

    I have friends that work for the State of California. There employees have 3 furlough days a month. I don’t think they were given any estimation of the length of time this would be for. DMW and Courts are closed 1 day every other week. We will go back to business as usual 7/01/2010.

    California has a very high rate of unemployment. The ERIP is great. I wish I could retire now. Younger workers have more energy and are a wealth of knowledge familiar with new technology. The whole country is suffering. I was born in Los Angeles, survived earthquakes, 911 and the riots.

    Shaun McCorry-Phillips
    Traffic Officer Dept Of Transportation

11. First of all let us lay the blame for the situation where it belongs: our City leaders failed us by not acting on our initial ratification in July, or August and only in mid September did they do so. More to the point we have been trying to get their attention for almost 2 years. We saw this coming. We tried to get things going during that time and got no where.

    Plus the Mayor said yes, then no then yes. This failure to meet with us in good faith made our problems, which I assure you are real, all the worse.

    Are we being asked to give up things we deserve, you bet. Most of the concessions are for a limited time, less than the life of the contract.

    By retiring out the longest serving, and thus most highly paid, we preserve our younger work force and give those retiring a dignified way out. We also best preserve service delivery to those who live in the City.

    I see no call for profanity or lack of civility.

    What we give back now can be gotten back either by the terms of the agreement we ratify or in the next round of negotiations. If we break apart now, our cause will suffer. Is the deal perfect? Of course not. We are in the midst of the most serious economic crisis since the 1930’s. Wake up! Denying the truth of what we face will avail us nothing.

    Let us join with the entire City Family, support the deal, vote Yes, the job you save may be your own.

12. We have worked so long, we have come so far, we are so damn close, that it would be a damn shame to turn back now. It would be a transgression against humankind to forfeit our only protection against lay-offs, furloughs, jobs being outsourced, and city insolvency. We have won every major battle there is–the unanimous initial vote by the city council, the landslide initial vote by the membership, the 4-3 victory over the LACERS board, and this last 12-0 vote by the city council. Something tells me that there is something very righteous and powerful about the message of the membership majority and the city council. You can choose to play with numbers all you want, get angry about what the concessions individually mean to you, squander precious time, watch the critical city resources needlessly burn, and thoughtlessly help drive the whole city rapidly ever closer to the brink of bankruptcy. Or you can decide to do what is moral and sensible and help save city services, your job, your future, and your way of life. Time has run out!

    –Tommy Resulto, LAPD Property Division

13. I am grateful for being in a member-driven union that supports the members, and joined together with six other unions in the Coalition of LA City Unions to protect the city workers’ jobs and well-being, and the services we provide. And that worked with the City to protect members’ families by not having us take big giant pay cuts. Even though there are problems all over the United States and California, with public workers like us taking bigger paycuts, more furloughs, more layoffs, our union is setting the standard in working with and not against the City to come up with a great agreement that helps the City and helps us continue providing for our families.

14. With all due respect,

    sometimes you have to just let a bad deal that just keeps getting worse go. This is one of those times. What happens next July 1 when the mayor decides that more layoffs or concessions are necessary, he has already got our union to agree that the “hard won” no layoffs is only good for this fiscal year. Starting July1, he and the city council can start laying off people and there is not a thing we can do about it. Lets remember that a union is about hearing the voice of all members, not just those that agree with leadership. In addition, Union are to protect the rights of all workers not just the one who have been here the longest or shortest. By the way, do you really trust the mayor to keep his word? he did not keep his word to his wife, first anchor girlfriend, or City workers the first time we had a deal!

15. Brothers Of MOU 18 Safety and Security, I cant believe your in favor of this deal?
    No Overtime, We who are forced to work over in an emergency. I was at LAX during 9/11 we were forced for 1 year to work 5 days a week 12 hours a day. Now the Union is proposing you do it for free!! Let me clarify, No Overtime!! Comp time?? Want to know about comp time Look at LASD they have it but cant use it.

    Look Closely at this deal. Its Bad for the majority of city workers, So 1000 are layed off!! better to lose a finger than the whole arm.

    T Bradley
    Security Officer
    13yr Veteran
    Union Steward
    LAX

16. Let’s be productive and not harp on the past, we need to focus at where the City is now for all of us. Let’s look at the most recent LACERS Actuarial Review for the period ending June 30, 2008 – specifically Section 3, Exhibit B (page 16) that addresses the active employees in LACERS by age, years of service and average payroll. This report is available through the LACERS website at http://www.lacers.org/AboutLACERS/_FormsPublications/Reports/2008_Annual_Actuarial_Valuation.pdf. With this data, it is a no brainer to see that nearly 1/3 of the active employees in our retirement system have less than 5 years of service and their average wage is substantially less at $33,000 annually.
    Let’s give thought to this perspective – with the goal of E-RIP to separate 2,400 employees – and yes, let’s use the Exhibit B mentioned above – the average salary is about $79,000 for those with 25 or more years of service. Quite a difference from those with less than 5 years of service. The ratio of the salary for E-RIP eligibles with those of less than 5 years is 1:2.33.
    This means if the E-RIP doesn’t move forward the layoffs will be extreme for both those that are laid off and those that remain. The service impacts will be devastating to those that we all serve – it is selfish to loose sight of this. When compared with the E-RIP – to close the gap of 2,400 E-RIP employees could require about 5,600 layoffs (2,400 X 2.33). This example is for an annual basis. To close the budget gap, within the remaining months could require an even greater number of layoffs and with being near October 2009 and the amount of time it takes to process layoffs the 5,600 has potential to increase.
    Yes, the package that will come before us is different and time has passed. Get over it. Read the detail of the E-RIP in the proposed ordinance – go through the City’s Intranet to the Council File Index, the Council File is 09-0600-S142 and here is the link http://cityclerk.lacity.org/lacityclerkconnect/ . Be prepared to make an informed decision. Some highlights of the Ordinance:
    1) The City reserves the right to increase the active employee contribution rate for NEW City hires. This is no different than the tradition with the Fire and Police Pension contributions where there are quite a few tiers and retirement contribution rates. If you’re an active employee now, your protected under this agreement and when the E-RIP obligation is repaid we’re back to a 6% contribution rate.
    2) The elimination of the defrayal group of those hired 1983 and earlier results in savings. This savings goes toward meeting our cost obligation.
    3) The traditional payout of accrued sick leave and vacation time for those that retire will be a “severance payment” paid over two years in FY 2010-11 and 2011-12. So yes, they will get paid. With it being so late in the calendar year, this will be better for income tax purposes too.
    4) For the 1% hold back from those that retire – it is a one-time calculation. The retirement system retains the funds to help achieve the goal of being cost neutral. It is a small amount and insures that those that retire share in meeting the cost to keep our jobs. For those in the $79,000 salary range with 33 years the retirement is about $56,000 and $560 would be the 1%. The $560 would not be there for each of your future retirement years as it would continue to help meet the cost neutrality; but the calculation is not reapplied for future years either. It is basically $10 per every $1,000 from your monthly retirement allowance based on your allowance at the time when you retire. Many will pick-up 3 service years which is 6.48% and giving back the 1% is more than fair. Those that retire under E-RIP can feel good about this approach, and look forward to their pension COLAs while those that remain behind will look forward to a multi-year MOU with future salary increases.
    5) For those E-RIP eligibles that are in Group 4 (at least 55 years of age and at least 33 years of service) there are no additional service years and the 1% reduction doesn’t apply. This group does receive $1,000 per year of service as their separation payment.
    Let’s hope that this helps to address some of the rumors floating out there. Revenues are still down and the spending outpaces the revenues at $1 million per day. In light of the current economic conditions, we are all fortunate to have our jobs with the City of Los Angeles. We can persevere through our Coalition Team, patience, and understanding what will be before us along with what is at stake here.
    In solidarity, supporting the efforts of the Coalition Bargaining Team is the best option. Clearly, the negotiations have been stressful for everyone, including the City. Let’s support this agreement that extends to future years, provides an avenue for the career workers to retire gracefully, and preserves the remaining workforce.

17. There are some people here who are saying that we should let this deal go and just take the layoffs and furloughs. What they don’t understand is that we will not protect ourselves at all if we allow the layoffs and furloughs to move forward.

    For those of you who think this is a bad deal(it’s not great), think of the deal the city will force down our throats if we reject the agreement.

    Some people are under the misconception that we’ll get our overtime back if we reject this deal. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Rejecting this deal means that the city still doesn’t have money for this year. It also means that the city will have much less money next year.

    The city has spoken of layoffs that look like anywhere between 7,000 – 9,000 workers in the next couple of years. Furloughs next year would look more like 50 days instead of 26. That’s because the city’s deficit will be twice as bad as this year.

    Some people think that their departments and jobs are exempt from layoffs. The truth is that through the city’s “bumping rights”, someone who previously held your job can bump you out, if their position is targeted for layoff, even if they work in a different part of the city.

    Do you really want to gamble on your jobs because you’re upset that this deal makes us feel a little pain until June 30, 2010? Think of how much pain we’ll feel beyond 2010 if we reject the deal.

    -Art

18. The Union has ALWAYS stood behind the workers and said, “Don’t balance the budget on the back of the workers!!!” Seems they have buckled, but why? The workers did not put the City in the position they are in. The City has grossly mismanaged their own funds for years. This crisis was not caused by the workers, yet they are the ones to pay for it…while their is no accountability or AUDIT for the City’s spending.

    So this is how ER P works for me. I don’t know if I’m alone on this, or if there are quite a few others in the same position and remaining silent and watching. Please speak up! . OH, the “I” for INCENTIVE is missing. Here’s why…

    My current “early retirement” figures out to just less than 1/2 my normal salary. WITH ER P, I will get about 1/2 my normal salary, but WITH ER P, I will have to pay back 1% to LACERS.

    I am only going to have 3 years (the minimum) added to my age to make me 60 years old for “normal retirement.” All that does is take away the reduction factor of .955 which amounts to a taxable $135/mo more. But then LACERS wants 1% back, so that leaves me with a taxable $105/mo income from the ER P. Maybe enough for two average dinners for two people a month after taxes. If I don’t take ER P then I don’t have to pay back the $30, but then I don’t get the extra $105/mo or $15k bonus either. $15K is a small cushion for a minor emergency. That’s it. So like I said in my other posts “elsewhere”, it’s better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but it does not go far enough for people in my position. With 24 years of service, they won’t add anything to service credits because it won’t take me to 30 years.

    I suggested giving a FULL FIVE years age and/or service credits to those in my position (not those who already meet ALL the requirements for normal retirement…they can get what has already been proposed), but also NOT to pay back 1% to LACERS. That is just wrong, giving with one hand and taking back with the other. Times have changed and I understand the unwillingness for current employees to not want to contribute more into the pension fund “so others can retire” but it’s just like an insurance premium. These things go up, but you don’t have better coverage. Cost of living goes up, you (supposedly) get raises. Cost of car insurance or life insurance goes up, you just pay more.

    So current employees having to contribute more to help secure the future that LACERS will be there when it’s their turn to retire does not sound like such a bad idea….while you are making your FULL salary. And when it come close to your retirement, maybe they could offer a REAL incentive that affects more people!! Also people who make more than you do are contributing more than you are. People making less are paying less. Is this a problem too? Sigh……..

19. Those old enough and have the years of service are getting the BIG incentive/bonus. AND it IS a big deal to them with lots to gain!!

    But in my situation, this is really nothing! While ER P doesn’t “hurt” me, it’s NOT ENOUGH! They are not taking into account people in my position and MAY be surprised that their estimated 2,400 retirees is much higher!

    I’m in a catch 22/double edge sword position because a disability claim has not been officially accepted, but if/when it is, they OFFSET “other available/deductible income” such as PENSION from what they give you. And of course that FORCES you to retire because you can’t live off the taxable $1,000/mo they would owe me. That could take 6 more months to several years to decide. I would miss the 45 day window. Then six months down the road they would want to re-evaluate me and erroneously find I’m no longer disabled and stop payments. They are NOT on the client’s side and will do ANYTHING to get out of paying your claim!!

    So I would be stupid NOT to take the ER P plan now, even though it’s ONLY a $105/mo. gross before taxes. Otherwise I miss the 45 day window. I would wind up retiring BEFORE the claim is decided, just for the $105/mo.? When you are living on less than half of your normal salary, giving back 1% to LACERS IS A BIG DEAL!!! And it’s not fair or right. Maybe people on SS should pay back some too?

    The UNION needs to work harder with LACERS to make this a real ERIP plan instead of the threats of layoffs (that can happen) and furloughs (which we all should know by now we are safe from.)

    Someone mentioned paying income TAX on the $15K bonus in 2009, even though we won’t get it until next year. I’ll leave that one up to my accountant. And I think that is divided into TWO payment also!!

    So, is there anyone else in a similar situation? Anybody know of anyone else in a similar situation? While it does look like this “ER P” is going to fail, I wonder if more pressure from people not quite close enough to retire would help.

20. Garcetti “spills the beans” on the backroom deal; “Employees with the Coalition of L.A. City Unions have been asked to forfeit 3.5 hours of pay out of each 80-hour pay period. Such sacrifices, in part, are allowing the city to continue hiring officers, Garcetti said.”
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/la-mayor-council-leaders-strike-deal-to-keep-budget-crisis-from-shrinking-lapd.html

    Now we know why the Coalition gave the City $18M more than what was needed for passage of the ERIP. On the back of the Letter of Agreement it specifically notes that the 3.5 hours will “save” $18.5M. Is this a scam or what?